KCBC has got it wrong
Posted by JoSep 30
I was happy to hear that the Kerala Catholic Bishops Conference (KCBC) conducted an inter-religious talk with various Hindu leaders today. It took place at Hotel Sarovaram in Kochi. The talk was intended to explain the activities of Catholic church and it’s missionary policy. When the communal hatred flares up, it is the duty of religious leaders to come together, have dialogue and make something positive out of it for the greater good of the society and nation. But my moment of joy faded away in a flash when I read that the leaders of Viswa Hindu Parishad (VHP) and RSS where invited to the talks.
VHP and their pet organizations like Bajrang Dal are communal and religious extremist forces who are spreading hatred between Christian-Hindu and Muslim-Hindu communities. Their only political agenda is to gain supreme power in India and establish a Hindu Rashtra which is based on the One Nation, One Religion concept. And above it all, VHP and RSS do not represent the majority of Hindus (if it is so, we will have to say that the New Life Church or other such new-age evangelical churches represent Christianity or SIMI and Al-Qaeda represent Muslims). Their terrorist youth wing Bajrang Dal have been killing Christians and burning their properties in many parts of the country by cashing-in on the ordinary Hindu’s sentiments against some Missionary tactics. Such extremists need to be dealt with the law of the land. The Catholic Bishops should have urged and put pressure on the state and central Governments to jail the culprits like Bajrang Dal activists instead of choosing to have dialogue with their peers of VHP and RSS.
The extremist organizations like VHP, Bajrang Dal and their political wing BJP will not refrain themselves from their activities because they are only after power (by terror). By falling on their feet, the Bishops have done injustice to the innocent people (both Christians and Hindus) who have been killed in the Christian-Hindu riots which is a result of induced hatred by VHP and Bajrang Dal in Orissa, Karnataka and Kerala. When there are respected Hindu leaders from Chinmaya Mission, Kaladi Mutt etc and various Hindu organizations like SNDP and NSS who represent the majority of Hindus in Kerala (Chinmaya Mission, Sivarigi Mutt and Amrutanandamayi Ashram were invited to the event), why did the KCBC invite extremist people like Kummanam Rajasekharan and K P Sasikala? Were they stupid enough to think that this would make a change in the mindset of the extremists of VHP? And if the KCBC could invite the extremists of VHP and RSS, why didn’t they invite the Pentecostal groups who are aggressively into conversion business? Or is this showing the Kerala Catholic Church’s newly found love for VHP to fight their common enemy of Communism in Kerala?
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23 comments
Pingback by Forever young » Blog Archive » KCBC has got it wrong on September 30, 2008 at 1:48 pm
[...] post by Just Jo Filed under: Youth [...]
Comment by rummuser on September 30, 2008 at 3:53 pm
I, on the other hand, applaud this decision. The moderate Hindus, who are knowledgeable about matters, need not be convinced about the need to maintain communal harmony. It is these ignorant and fanatic fringe groups that need to be educated about other religions and made to appreciate secularism. What the KCBC has attempted should be taken to all parts of India. This is the true Christian way.
Comment by Ajith Edassery on September 30, 2008 at 4:34 pm
Jo,
According to me any religious outfit that plays to the tunes of politicians and/or forming political parties are to be banned… This is the only long term solution for all these issues.
I am terrified by the news today that a nun was raped and the priest beaten up in Orissa. By closing their eyes, the centre is basically trying to get the political mileage as well by blaming BJP and their allies (BJP-Allies started this as their political agenda, and they will definitely loose because of this)
Why can’t we have only national parties alone (like UK or US) and not these stupid local ‘terrorist’ outfits? For me, the religious fanatics are close to or almost equal to terrorists.
Regards,
Ajith
Comment by Jo on September 30, 2008 at 5:30 pm
Rummuser: I also do appreciate the decision to have talks with Hindu leaders, but my only worry is about acknowledging the extremist outfits like VHP. That is not going to benefit for peace, I believe. For they do not care if they understand the stand of Church or any other organization, it is just they want to use religion for the political mileage.
Ajith: Very true Ajith. I am also aware that some of the Missionary groups also to be blamed for giving fuel to the HIndutvavaadis. Such missionary groups, if it is found that they spread Christianity by abusing Hindu religion and Gods and if offered money to convert people, should be outrightly banned as well.
You are right about the Center resorting to the blame game. What a pity!
Comment by Ashok on September 30, 2008 at 10:30 pm
Jo, Without calling VHP and Bajrang Dal, with whom are you planning to make peace. With so called psuedo secularist?? Jo, you seems to be a Christian fanatic. You are showing the same attitude of all Christian missionaries who is working day and night to evanjalise India. Now to be frank with you, the days are over that Hindu population will tolerate anything that you guys do. The days are gone where Hindus are left without a leader. Now as you can see VHP, Bajrang Dal and RSS are leading the nation..without them you cannot make any decisions that concerns the Hindu society. So..please accept the fact. Don’t close your eyes to create darkness.
Comment by Jo on September 30, 2008 at 10:33 pm
Ashok: The day when Hinduism is represented by communal forces like VHP, RSS and Bajrang Dal, then will begin the curse of Hinduism.
Comment by R.Sajan on September 30, 2008 at 11:34 pm
All this is happening because India is not truly secular. We must also become secular like KSA, UAE, Pakistan, Iran, Vatican etc.
We must also become as democratic as them.
That, is our only hope of peace. Scrap the IPC and bring in Sharia.
But the Fascists will not allow it.They will not agree with the secular truth that the 2.5% are more important than the 80%.
Comment by Jo on September 30, 2008 at 11:46 pm
R Sajan: Oh yeah, let us say that those are the only nations where Islam is a majority. Let us forget any other Islamic majority countries which are democratic. Let us say that Vatican is the only Christian nation in the world and forget all other Christian countries where there is absolute religious freedom and democracy. And oops! wasn’t Nepal a Hindu majority country and when did democracy came there? In 2008? Yuck!!
Comment by R.Sajan on October 1, 2008 at 3:12 am
Which are the Islamic countries that are democratic? Do they have the Sharia system?
How big is Nepal? Did democracy ever happen in any Islamic country, as happened in Hindu Nepal?
Are the Christian democracies secular, like India? How can they be Christian, then? Is India a Hindu country? Or is it a masochistic secular paradise where the majority allows itself to be bullied and put down by the minority, with external help and fifth columns inside?
Do the Islamic democracies allow the Pope who is the head of another country to establish, own and run his churches there, as India does? Are the Catholic churches in other countries owned by the Pope?
Do the minorities in those countries run to Italy and the Pope to settle issues with their own people? Do Islamic countries allow vulgar propaganda against Prophet Muhammed, the kind that the New Light Church in Karnataka was allowed to against Hindu deities?
Comment by Jo on October 1, 2008 at 2:15 pm
India is not a Hindu nation, but a Hindu majority nation. And we have democracy and religious freedom here, thanks to the authors of our constitution. Similarly there are Christian majority countries where democracy and total religious freedom is allowed. The point that I am trying to make here is that it is not because of a particular religion (Hinduism in this case) that a country remains secular. If it is so, the Christian majority countries would not have had religious freedom and democracy in place (look at USA for example). Also you can go through the countries listed in this page – http://www.conservapedia.com/Category:Christian-Majority_Countries – and see how many of them DO NOT have a democracy and freedom of religion in place.
You ask me, how big is Nepal. I ask you back, how big is Vatican? Not even Nepal’s size. It is the smallest independent state in the world by both population and area. And when did the Hindu Nepal gained democracy? This year, that is 2008 and through maoist revolution.
About the Muslim democratic countries, I don’t have enough knowledge about that, so will ask a friend of mine to comment on that separately.
Comment by 1conoclast on October 1, 2008 at 2:58 pm
R Sajan,
Can I ask you a couple of questions please?
1. I’m sure you know the difference between a religious state & a religious majority state, don’t you?
For example, Pakistan is a religious state, while India is a republic, a democracy, not a religious state. It is a religious majority state though, a Hindu majority. (And it is sad that such things are happening in a Hindu majority state as it’s ruining the good name of the sole Hindu majority state in the world)
2. Do you want to discuss, religious states or religious majority states?
Since you’ve brought up the topic, with your permission, I’d like to present some data around Islamic majority countries and Islamic states:
There are 52 Muslim majority countries in the world.
Out of these only 10 are Islamic states.
13 declare their state religion to be Islam (14 if you count Malaysia, but it’s already been counted in the 10 above.).
15 are secular states or secular republics. I’m assuming that their constitution or some other document confirms them as such.
15! Not 13, not 10! A higher number.
In another 13, there is no official state religion despite them being Muslim majority states.
You can calculate %ages & do the other math with the figures I have provided you. Or I could do that for you as well.
Source: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Majority_Muslim_countries#
In the UAE, which is not an Islamic State, but has Islam as the official state religion, millions of people from all over the World come to seek employment, including Hindus from India (& elsewhere?). Manu Chabria of Jumbo Electronic Corp. built his immense fortune living & working in the UAE. Was there any discrimination against him? Did he become that big because he was welcomed or because he was being discriminated against?
Enough questions for you to answer now.
I have one request for you. Whenever you want to discuss a subject, or make a claim/accusation, it will help if you adopt a more sceptical approach & more importantly DO SOME RESEARCH before commenting on it.
Is there anything else in your rant that I can address for you?
Jo,
I “personally” think it’s a good idea to engage the terrorists in discussions. Adopting the high moral ground doesn’t work unfortunately. That total boycott thing, even Gandhiji relaxed. He boycotted the Brits, but still held talks with them, despite them mercilessly murdering his countrymen.
Quite a few terrorist organizations have been finished by bringing them into the political mainstream. I think that’s what we did with Yasin Malik formerly of the JKLF.
Let’s talk to the terrorists on both the sides, whether they’re a simi an im or the sangh parivar.
Comment by 1conoclast on October 1, 2008 at 3:50 pm
R Sajan,
One more question:
Q. Are you asking what would happen in India, let’s say the country is ruled by Muslims?
If that is your question, then I think you only need to look at Akbar’s rule (or even Mughal rule in general, with probably Aurangzeb being the one exception). The rulers were Muslims, the offcial religion was probably Sunni-Islam.
Did that not allow Hindus or Shias religious freedom?
Did Sufis not prosper during that time?
Did Hindu Kings not rule their kingdoms peacefully under the umbrella of the Mughals? Did they have to abandon their religion?
Did intermarrying not happen at that time?
Did Tansen not prosper in Akbar’s court?
Did Akbar not invite scholars from all religions & come up with a Deen-e-Elahi?
I’m sorry I’d said one question, but asked you so many… but my head was teeming with them.
Even if India today is ruled by Muslims (whether they’re in the majority or minority), every community will continue to prosper.
Comment by Jo on October 1, 2008 at 4:34 pm
Very valid points you explained here, 1con and many of those were eye-opening to me as well. Thank you!
Comment by 1conoclast on October 1, 2008 at 5:55 pm
Anytime Jo. Anything for a brother!
Comment by R.Sajan on October 2, 2008 at 12:10 am
Thank you all for the lessons. Dumb me did not yet get enligvhtened about how many Islamic, or Islam majority countries have democracy. Please bear with me and tell me.
I am happy that despite all these bombs, Akbar would come back. But history is written by the victors. I do not know if Akbar-history is godly truth; even Tippu and Hyder Ali are glorified as monuments of charity and tolerance on TV now! My area of the country had been brutal-converted by Tippu and Hyder.
Anyway, I would better trust the bombs that I see before me in the present; than an Akbar of the past.
I found that i was deleted away in that Mutiny site of yours. I suppose since you are all liberal and democratic, it would happen here also, if I try to discuss more? What do you say?
I repeat my deleted-suggestion that I made in your Mutiny site. Wikipedia on India and most other matters is mosty propaganda. Better not trust it.
Comment by Jo on October 2, 2008 at 11:48 am
Wikipedia is propaganda. So are the national and international media. Only what I think is the truth and I want everyone else to believe what I believe.
(I really did not know what people meant by calling Sagh Parivar and it’s supporters “fascists”. Now I get it.)
PS: Mutiny did not delete any comments which were more uglier and stupid than “Wikipedia is propoganda”. Just a look at the comment section in the controversial posts would prove that to anybody.
Comment by R.Sajan on October 3, 2008 at 12:13 am
Now, i come to what I should have asked right before starting the discussion; but there is no fool like an old fool. How old are you, Sir?
Do not take it wrong, please. Pardon my age. I am aware that grown-ups never understand anything for themselves, and it is tiresome for children to be always and forever explaining things to them.
Comment by 1conoclast on October 3, 2008 at 6:44 pm
R.Sajan…
That is probably why I am so tired of explaining things to your & your ilk on the Mutiny & now here!!!
I am glad to note that you suddenly do not have any answers. See, this is how you debate. You have to quote facts & use logic. You comments have now degenerated into mere sarcasm and no substance. You have nothing to say & no questions to ask suddenly.
Allow me one more lesson please: If History is written by victors, then why are all these points unanswered still…?
http://mutiny.in/2008/05/03/history-lies/
Comment by R.Sajan on October 9, 2008 at 1:36 pm
It is only from enlightened people like you that dumb folks like me can ever hope to be educated. Thank you.
1. I take it that you would like to live in KSA rather than India because things are not as good in India.
2. You have logical reasoning to substantiate thar Akbar and not Bin Laden would rule Moslem India. Please enlighten me.
3. You are sure that the Bombs do not represent any Moslem. Perhaps, no bomb has been cracked in your area.
4. As for Wikipedia’s being Propaganda by the independent Editors, please look at the Anti-Christian pages against India. Look at those pages’ History part.
5. “Anyway, I would better trust the bombs that I see before me in the present; than an Akbar of the past.” Kindly give your specific comments about it.
6. “In the UAE, which is not an Islamic State, but has Islam as the official state religion, millions of people from all over the World come to seek employment, including Hindus from India (& elsewhere?).” Please tell me if the people there have freedom of expression and religion, as we have in India.
7. “Which are the Islamic countries that are democratic? Do they have the Sharia system?”
8. That I should research, quote facts etc were not answers to my questions. I am grateful for such valuable advice though. Kindly give specific answers, if your obvious superior knowledge and experience would allow it.
9. Once you have given specific answers, instead of doling out laughable advice, we might perhaps, continue. One is always optimistic about the infallible omniscient. One hopes that some day, they too might grow up.
Comment by 1conoclast on October 9, 2008 at 9:00 pm
R.Sajan…
Phir bakwas…?
1. How low does your IQ have to get to deduce that I would want to live in KSA instead of in my country?
2. Already gave you an answer. This new question is representative of your utter stupidity. Ask me a proper question & I’ll give you an answer. If you ask me a stupid question, you’ll get nothing. Instead of arguing uselessly, why can’t you accept the facts presented? Do you have an agenda to malign Muslims?
3. I was in Bombay during the 1992 blasts & during the Ghatkopar bus blast. My aunt was greviously injured in the 1992 blasts. She worked at the Air India building. Why do you open your mouth without knowing “facts”?
4. Give me a link.
5. Already explained this to you. You were talking about a Muslim dominated India… a very remote possibility. I gave you an example from the past of Muslim-ruled India being perfectly OK. There were no Hindu terrorists in Akbar’s time. Maybe I should ask you why there are some Muslims who turn to terrorism in Hindu majority India today? Can you think about that please?
6. http://www.shaivam.org/siddhanta/toi_dubai.htm
Muscat in Oman too has 2 Hindu temples.
Please realize now that whatever you’ve heard uptil now is an attempt by hindutva organizations & the sangh to deliberately malign Muslims. Please wake up! How much proof will it take to convince you that Muslims inside & outside India honour & respect non-Muslims?
7. I don’t know. I am not that obsessed with Islam or Islamic states yet. If I do become obsessed at some point, I will research it & tell you. In the meantime, since you seem so obsessed, why don’t you research it a little?
8. See 7. above.
9. See 2. above.
Comment by R.Sajan on October 10, 2008 at 1:32 am
1.” How low does your IQ have to get -”
2. “..your utter stupidity-..”
3. “..open your mouth without knowing “facts”?”
4. “There were no Hindu terrorists in Akbar’s time”
Thank you for your enlightening answers. For a moment, I thought I was back in nursery school. Excellent style of arguing that is good for any nursery school or less.. Bye , bye , Sir. Too old ro argue with those as young as Yourself.
I surrender and withdraw. May be if and when you are more mature….
Comment by 1conoclast on October 22, 2008 at 4:16 pm
R.Sajan,
No offence intended, but you’ve heard laaton ke bhooth baaton se nahi maante, haven’t you?
Comment by SUNIL on November 18, 2009 at 3:09 pm
dear jo
conversion for the sake of increased believer base to be condemned. Change of faith should happen only after understanding the new religion and having confidence on its uniqueness over others. Unfortunately most coversions happens according to convenience.
To get married to the opposite religion, to get financial aid, to get rid of oppression due to caste etc are meaningless conversions. In all these cases, none are serious about learning the new religion seriously. Most of such people will repent on their deed before death(they may not disclose it) because they are not properly adapted to the new faith. Recent converts are not much respected among any religion when it comes to the matter of marriage of their children. Oppression of caste is not ending even after conversion so we have avasa kristhyani in our society.
So if anybody wants to convert let them do it after learning properly.
It is good for them not to repent secretly, later.